POWER UPGRADES: A1 Golf/Jetta, GTI, Scirocco, Cabs ================================================== I collected a bunch of info on engine power upgrades for the A1 line of cars. See also the other *_Power_Upgrades, G60_Chip_Specs, the collins files, & the Performance FAQ. Jan Vandenbrande SUMMARY PROVIDED BY JUD MAIN (judson@colorado.edu) ================================================== Summary of power upgrades for the A1s: Ignition Upgrade: Change from points to electronic ignition. Use aftermarket upgrade like Pertronix (about $70). Spark plugs (good results with Bosch Platinum on VWs, last forever). Upgrade to later model distributor cap, rotor, and wires for a better connection. Note: The electronic ignition tends to wear out the cap and rotor in 15k miles. Air flow meter: Upgrade to the 80 mm, thin lipped one, I got mine off an 84 Rabbit GTI. There'll be a sticker on the top with "69K" - that's the one you want. Supposed to give 6-7 hp in the upper RPM range. Throttle body: Neuspeed, Techtonics, Velocity, Bellevue Motor Sports, Autotech and other all offer a larger throttle body. Sometimes there is an adapter plate to get the later model TB on your intake manifold. This is NOT the way to go, as it restricts the air flow. See these archives for another solution. Plus, the above companies offer this procedure of welding and offset boring the intake manifold, along with some porting and polishing of the intake manifold. Intake manifold: Other than the throttle body, and porting and polishing, not much to be done, unless you want to take the big step of bolting on an A2 intake manifold and moving all of your injection system over to the passenger's side of the engine compartment. Nominal gain for much effort. Head: All A1s came with a solid lifter head, which means that the valves must be adjusted periodically for optimum performance. See your manual for this procedure. The 1.8 solid lifter GTI head is one of the best made, and can be re-worked by many companies to produce much more air flow (thus more power). The valve train (valves, lifters, springs, etc.) can be lightened and strengthened, alloying quicker throttle response, smoother power, and a higher RPM limit. Also, porting and polishing, in addition to large intake and exhaust valves, can be done to even the airflow to each cylinder further evening out and balancing your power output (engine runs much smoother as a result). See the FAQs, and talk to your favorite aftermarket tuner for the best information. Note: This head can be fit on other engines, 1.7 directly, and the 1.6s with some re-working (I believe) **** this needs help **** Block: Buy Greg Raven's book, The VW Front Wheel Drive Performance Handbook (**** I forget the exact title ****), it has a complete run-down of the various engines offered in the A1s. Many people have taken an A2 GTI engine and electronics and adapted them to the A1s. These blocks bolt right up to the existing motor mounts and transmission. They are higher compression, run a knock sensor, a 1.8s, and come with the very nice big-valve hydraulic head (more power, quieter operation, and no more 3k mile valve adjustments). I am in the process of fitting a 2-liter "bubble block" from an 89 Audi 80 to my A1 Scirocco. It is not a straight-forward conversion, though they block does bolt right in using the existing mounts, the distributor is different - you must use that distributor - and it uses a hall sensor, therefore you will have to use an electronic ignition. If your car already comes with this, then the wiring is identical. The warmup regulator does not have anywhere to bolt onto the block. In fact, this block has a large machine hole for crankcase breathing right where the warmup regulator would normally go. You must get a machinist to make up a special plate. You must use the 1.8 liter A2 hydraulic head. It does bolt right up. You can't use the Audi head with your injection. The solid lifter A1 GTI head will work only if you change the oil pump (talk to your tuner). The 1.6 and later blocks can be safely machine to accept up to a 92.8 stroke and and 82.5 mm pistons for a 1984. You will need a new crank, rods, and pistons. Unless you are an expert in rebuilding engines, it is recommended that you have your tuner do this, or buy a complete short block straight from them (or long block - meaning that it comes with a head). This is an expensive but quick way to more power. There is nothing like size to bring the torque band and thus driveability down into the RPM band. The 1.8s can be made to make quite a bit of power higher up in the RPM range, and if your car is relatively light (i.e. not a Cabrio, perhaps no A/C) you can easily live with the given torque around town). Camshafts: For the solid lifter head there is quite a range of camshafts, from inexpensive to expensive, that will allow more power, ASSUMING YOU HAVE ALREADY UPGRADED YOUR EXHAUST. If your exhaust can't flow more air, the camshaft won't make that much of a difference. Basically a camshaft will allow you to adjust where the power of the motor is. Stock camshafts adjust the power for more low-end torque. A race cam will have almost no power at low RPMs, but really take off once you reach 4000 RPMs. The Schrick company has produced an "assymetric" cam that reduces the power loss at low RPM and still allows great power at RPM. It is expensive, however. There are lower-cost copycats on the market, which may or may not be of good quality. Exhausts: If you own an 82-84 Rabbit, Jetta, or GTI, you have the worse exhaust manifold in the VW line. It has one outlet, as opposed to the normal two. Believe it or not, changing to an earlier manifold (81 or earlier) dual outlet manifold will add 10% more horsepower right away. This is not that easy a swap. The exhaust manifold's bolts can be rusted right on, access is very awkward. The intake manifold can be removed first, but the allen head bolts holding it on can strip easily if not careful. If you go through the trouble of doing this and replacing your exhaust manifold, seriously consider buying an aftermarket exhaust system from a reputable tuner (see that archives and FAQs for excellent information on exhaust systems). A good exhaust can add 10-15% more horses by itself, and allows for much greater power gains in combination with a new/ported head and cam. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >From gt7460c@prism.gatech.edu Tue Oct 18 15:03 PDT 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:05:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: A1-Audi Throttle body swap To: jan@UG.EDS.COM (Jan Vandenbrande) > I'd welcome any such write-up. I have very little info as yet. > It's probably too late, but did you make any base measurements, ie., > time to go from 20-40 in 2nd, 40-60 in third etc, and compare them > with the new ones? Jan, I didn't get the measurements, but I can tell you that it feels noticably faster. The size of the primary valves are the same. The difference is in the secondary. The VW T.B. uses 44 mm diameter secondary while the Audi has a diameter of 52mm. This gives you a good idle(unlike some of the earlier big TB's) and part throttle response with a much improved full throttle response. This improved full throttle response is most noticable at the lower rpms. (BTW, the measurements are off a 85 Scirocco. The older cars have even smaller secondaries) Anyway, here is the procedure: I'm fairly certain that this will work on all fuel injected A1 cars. I know that some of the earlier cars will benefit from having their intake manifold ported to match the dimensions of the Audi throttle body, but the later A1s (85 +)already have a good intake. First get a throttle body from a junked Audi 5000. Make sure that the movement on it is ok(ie no rusted parts). These can be obtained for around $40. The only tools required are a 11mm wrench, 6mm allen wrench, and a breaker bar(a lug wrench will work). This requires a little bit of welding and cutting. To start off, remove the throttle cable from the throttle body. It is held in place by a small clip. Next, remove the plastic runner to the throttle body. Push the rubber boot that connects it to the TB out of the way. Use the allen wrench to remove the bolts holding the throttle body to the manifold. This may require a breakerbar(mine did) and use of Liquid Wrench or something similar. If you have to use a breaker bar, make sure your allen wrenches are of good quality. Its not pleasant if they break off in the bolt. Now take the TB off. Notice the difference in where the cable mountings are. What you have to do is fashion a new mounting. I used the lower arm of the VW throttle body as a starting point. This is the arm with the little rubber plug at the end. Use the 11mm wrench to remove the nut holding the mounting on each TB. On the audi, you only have to pull the arms which have the cable mounting off. On the VW, you must pull the cable mounting arm off and the lower arm as well. Take the cable mounting of the Audi, and cut a piece off of the end so that you have a small square piece which has a cable mounting attached to it. Weld this to the VW TB lower arm so that it has the mounting to pivot point measurement as the VW cable mount. Here's an attempt at an ASCII picture: Cut this off ______ -----> / / | O |<-Square off Audi TB with cable mounting(O) ______/ /______| |____ attached / | |/--\| | X ------| || <-- Hole at end of lower arm where rubber \ \--/| plug used to be. ------- ----------------- | | <-- Cut this off --- X is the pivot point of the lower arm. This must be opened up with a drill so that it is circular, with no flat sides. Once you have done all this, put the new mounting arm onto the Audi TB. Put the nut on, but dont tighten it all the way. Mount the TB on the intake manifold tightening the hex bolts very well. Put the throttle cable on the cable mounting. Secure it with the clip. Now push the mounting back until the cable is taut, but not over stretched. Tighten the 11mm bolt while hold the mounting arm in place. Make sure the nut is very tight. Now reinstall the vacuum hose to the TB, put the rubber boot on the TB, making sure that the hose to the EGR valve goes where it should. Reinstall the plastic runner and you're done. To set the idle, turn the screw that is on top of the TB, near the back, and sticks out toward the manifold. If you adjust this as far as possible, and still can't get the idle right, use the idle screw in the back of the TB. You will have to use a VERY short flathead screwdriver(about 1 inch, handle included) to reach the idle screw. The job really isn't that difficult, and the resultant gains in power are quite noticable. Brad >From gt7460c@prism.gatech.edu Mon Oct 24 22:17 PDT 1994 Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 01:18:32 -0400 Subject: Throttle body switch In-Reply-To: <1994Oct21.180844.30830@cc.usu.edu> Organization: Georgia Institute of Technology Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Did you look over the info I sent you on the A1- Audi throttle body change yet? Since I sent that, I have gotten the full throttle switch set up, and the difference between the old throttle body and the Audi is even more noticable. My car has a good bit more pick-up at all RPMs. If you think that first post was a bit confusing, let me know and I'll see if I can find the technical names for the various small parts on the throttle bodies. Brad -- SHERIDAN,BRAD Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!gt7460c Internet: gt7460c@prism.gatech.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!calvin!not-for-mail Mon Jan 23 13:47:59 PST 1995 Article: 48661 of rec.autos.vw Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!calvin!not-for-mail From: rvborgh@ursa.calvin.edu (Raymond Vander Borgh) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: What's next? Date: 22 Jan 1995 12:03:25 -0500 Organization: Calvin College Lines: 62 Message-ID: <3fu34t$pdn@ursa.calvin.edu> References: <3fsm9p$1a3@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> NNTP-Posting-Host: ursa.calvin.edu In article <3fsm9p$1a3@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> mannix@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (MANNIX IAIN RORY CAMPBELL) writes: >I am interested in finding out general opinions on the performance >modifications I am in the process of making to my 84 GTi - It is lowered >with neuspeed springs, and Bilstein shocks. I am getting a rear 28 MM >swaybar and strut tiebars, both upper and lower. I am also getting a >Bellevue Motorsport intake, neuspeed throttle body, 432/272 duration cam, >header, 2 inch cat. converter, and Leistritz exhaust. It is already >ordered, so I cannot really change anything, but I am interested in >experiences that the readers of this newsgroup might have had - both good >and bad - and any other suggestions that come to mind about these cars, >things that might further improve performance - any insight is appreciated! > Thanks in advance - I.Mannix These mods are fine. I basically did the same to my '83 GTI and then later to my '82 2.0 cabby, which is currently waiting till I collect the funds to have the engine rebuilt. I will say that absolutely the best mod I did for increased performance was to upgrade to the 2.0 about 2 years ago. The 1.8s are just plain too small. Esp when you modify them for high rpm power. I finally got sick of having to wind the car out 1k rpm higher off the lights. However once my previous '83 GTI got past 4k it was good. The torque of the 2.0 motors is much better for driveability, and although it doesn't quite like to rev as freely as the 1.8 - it does make quite a bit more power esp with modified heads. My 2.0 cabby did 0-60 in under 8 seconds or thereabouts. 40-60 in 3rd in 4.3 seconds, 50-70 in 3rd in 5.3, 50-70 in 4th in 7.5. This was with a stock head and G-grind with ported intake manifold, good '82 exhaust manifold, 2" exhaust with 944 muffler, TT downpipe, 10.5+:1 CR, knock sensing ignition set at 12btdc, larger CIS airflow meter, and swiss cheesed air box. I haven't tested with the mildly ported head I put on with Hor 270 cam, because I kept on blowing head gaskets (2x). So its just sitting in the our garage while I collect funds for an engine rebuild down at the Bosch facility. I plan on using total seal rings if possible. Regarding your choice of cams I'm not sure you'll be too happy with it - too much duration for the street from what I've heard - at least for a 1.8. With the 2.0 you can get away with more duration due to the greater excess capacity to produce torque in those engines. I just purchased an '84 Saab 900S to get me to work and back. Very nice car, with much the same CIS-Lambda injection as my rabbit. Saab included an extra valve that cuts out fuel during overrun conditions - something that CIS-E cars did. I've also been reading info concerning the Saab APC turbo system. On the early Saabs APC worked with CIS-Lambda systems, and as such should work fine with the CIS-lambda on the VWs. It would be quite a project in my view. THe saabs also have a relay that might also be useful in delaying the cold enrichment circuit on the A1 cars with full throttle enrichment and CIS-lambda. With that switch closed I found I lost power (overly rich mixture), until about 4k rpm when it would just take off. The CIS-E systems also delay richening the mixture until after 4K as well on warm engines so I must be onto something. All in all, do as much as you can do to your motor to increase low end torque, and then work from there to increase torque at high rpms. regards, Peter Tong '82 2.0 8v Cabby '84 Saab 900S BTW, mileage on my '82 2.0 Cabby when it had the G-grind was about 24 in the city if nicely driving, and 39mpg freeway at a steady 55, 34-36mpg if passing and driving normal speeds on the freeway (all with the .71 fifth). >From usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!calvin!not-for-mail Fri Dec 9 12:59:00 PST 1994 Article: 45276 of rec.autos.vw Path: usc!howland.reston.ans.net!gatech!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gumby!calvin!not-for-mail From: rvborgh@ursa.calvin.edu (Raymond Vander Borgh) Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: [W] A1 steering discovery Date: 9 Dec 1994 02:38:43 -0500 Organization: Calvin College Lines: 65 Message-ID: <3c91i3$s4q@ursa.calvin.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ursa.calvin.edu Hi fellow VWers, As many of you know I own an '82 A1 project Cabby. Recently I had to remove the head, and while having the head off and TT downpipe out of the way I decided to replace the steering rack bushings while access was good. I knew they had some play because my alignment shop had mentioned this to me. At any rate I removed both of the U clamps that hold the steering rack to the body/firewall. The passenger side one was simple enough, but the driver's side U clamp was bent - something that I had not noticed (its very hard to see if unless you get under the car and even then only if you look for it). I'm not sure what happened to it but it seems that the old bushings as well as the clamp were the source of quite a bit of the play that was in my steering. At any rate, some of you A1 owners should check out your passenger side U clamps to see if they are still straight - esp if steering seems to have too much play. Changing these bushings wasn't a fun job however, the passenger side shouldn't be a problem, but the driver's side was a pain in the butt. You also have to be careful with the studs that hold the steering rack on. I'm not sure if they are replaceable since their back ends reside inside welded on body fixtures/and are behind sheet metal that isn't accessible from inside the car. Another thing also - if these bushings develop too much play it seems though it makes shifting slightly sloppier as well. This is due in part to the fact that the shifter mechanism/bushing holders/pivots etc. are supported by the steering rack U clamps/bushings. I bought my bushing parts from the dealer - including all new nuts/clamps/bushings/washers - for around $25. Peter Tong '82 2.0 8v Cabby BTW, I'm getting good practice changing heads on my Rabbit - this will have been the 3rd time on this car. I've been taking it easy lately and working on things slowly so I just got the head, and intake/exhaust manifolds back on tonight. Tommorrow the newer (and reinforced flanged) TT downpipe go in along with the replacement TT cat. It will also get a fresh fill of 100% Sierra Coolant, and dino oil for the first 100 miles or so, then I'll be taking it down to the Bosch facility for a leak down. With my leaking head gasket my leak down was around 20-30% - hopefully this new gasket will hold. I'm hoping it will, because if it doesn't then I'll most likely have to get the 2.0 pistons reringed. I don't get the chance to look inside my block often but I must say with the pan off its a beauty of an engine. Very stout rods, piston squirters, larger 36mm oil pump, and lots of extra room for a stroker crank. Audi also included the factory windage tray which is quite nice. Hopefully after getting this thing done and dialed in I'll be able to post the 40-60, 50-70 times for it with this mildly ported head and Hor Sport Hydro cam. Last time I tested - with this ported head and stock 86GTI cam 40-60 (3rd gear) cam up in 4.36 seconds - the same as my previous stock head with G-grind. The G-grind has much more duration and lift than the GTI cam so even with the stock it is just as quick. The Hor made the low end a bit weaker but the region from 3k to 6k was definitely stronger. Techtonics also mentioned that their replacement cat is good for another 1.5hp over the stock cat - so hopefully this will be noticeable as well. All in all the 40-60 (3rd 1.29 gear) and 50-70 (4th gear .91) time goals are 4.0 and 7.0 respectively. If I can pull off just under 5 seconds for the 50-70 in 3rd I'll be satisfied. Anyways, just thought I'd let people in on how my cabby has been doing lately. >From lynx.unm.edu!mimbres.cs.unm.edu!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!calvin!ursa!ptong12 Mon Feb 14 11:39:26 PST 1994 Article: 26960 of rec.autos.vw Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Path: lynx.unm.edu!mimbres.cs.unm.edu!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!wupost!gumby!calvin!ursa!ptong12 From: ptong12@ursa.calvin.edu (Peter Tong) Subject: Re: help with '85 Scirocco... Message-ID: Sender: news@calvin.edu (Netnews Punk) Nntp-Posting-Host: ursa Organization: Calvin College References: <2j7aaq$k4q@nic-nac.CSU.net> Date: Tue, 8 Feb 1994 21:19:04 GMT Lines: 106 In article jhamill@world.std.com (John A Hamill) writes: >In article <2j7aaq$k4q@nic-nac.CSU.net> mlarkin@nis.CalState.EDU (Michael K. Larkin) writes: >> I have an '85 Scirocco that I just installed a 2.0l 'bubble' >>block into. I had it done by a well know mechanic in Huntington Beach, >>CA. Along with the engine, he installed a Neuspeed cam and throttle >>body, Autotech manifold and downpipe, and Walker Dyno-max exhaust. One >>of my biggest annoyances with the old engine was the very rough idle when >>cold (sometimes dipping below 500 RPM) and slightly rough idle when >>warm. Well, to my dismay, the almost $4000 worth of new engine got me no >>improvement in these two areas. SO, I went back and he replaced the four >>injectors and a 'regulator valve' (whatever that is). The car now starts >>beautifully when cold (keeps its RPM up aorund 1,700 and gradually goes >>down as the engine warms). BUT, I think the idle could be a bit better. >>I see no reason why the idle has to fluxuate at all. My mechanic is >>blaming it on the new cam,but it feels just like the stock one did. The >>spray pattern is now peachy and the pressure is right on. WHat gives??? >>I don't really have a whole lot left to replace (AND NOT A LOT OF >>MONEY). The new joke with my mecahnic now is that "YOu'll just have to >>install a VR6...I don't think so!!! ALso, I don't necessarily notice a >>BIG difference in horse power. Kind of depressing, but I still have > > I've seen this scenario too many times. Installing a new >motor ISN'T going to straighten out injection problems. Your mechanic >should have fixed your existing setup before changing the engine, that >way you are dealing with one thing at a time. I would take out the >Neuspeed cam and install a Euro G-grind (if you have a mechanical >head), if not, install the AutoTech sport cam, it is milder than >Neuspeeds and doesn't lose as much low end. It sounds like a nice >set up though, you should be getting way more power than the old >motor. I think Neuspeed's 260 degree cam also works well, find out >what this guy installed. (The 260 is not just for G-60's) The Neuspeed >sport hydraulic cam (the one not cleared for emissions) is not a >good street cam. This is very true and something I made sure of before I installed my bubble block. Idle doesn't normally fluctuate too much with the stock cams. I'm using the G-grind and while it does fluctuate more than the stock cam its always within a 100-150rpm range when warm. Its due to the increased overlap most likely. In my opinion, power increases with the stock head are pretty much limited to about 130hp max. I might be wrong but it pretty much runs out of steam after 6k. When I first did the swap I found that the 2.0 gave about 10-15 (estimated) more hp than my warmed over JH 1.8 motor. However the amount of torque down low getting to that hp was much much increased. But the gains tapered off at the top when the head started getting restrictive. The torque curves are kind of like this - (guestimated torque figures): 130 * 125 * * 120 * 115 110 + 105 * + * 100 + 95 + 90 85 + 80 75 70 + * 65 60 + 55 50 45 40 35 30 25 20 15 10 05 00 1k 2k 3k 4k 5k 6k 7k * = 2.0 w/1.8 head, G-grind, Golf throttle body, TT cat downpipe, 2" exhaust + = '83 GTI 1.8 w/ all the above. The 2.0 doesn't rev like my 1.8 did. Much more of a linear torque curve. I didn't feel like it was that much faster either - until I took a stop watch to it and tested it over 20mph intervals - it was a full 1.5 seconds on average faster per interval than my 83 GTI was. Jim Dempsey supplied me with some timings with his Corrado SLC for comparison. He said it was wet outside but that he achieved 3.84 and 4.78 seconds timings for 40-60 in 3rd, and 4th respectively and that 50-70 timings were 3.73 and 5.65 seconds respectively. My car is about .5 second slower than his SLC times in 40-60 3rd gear times (4.3secs) - but in the same gear 50-70 (3rd gear) my times really fall off to 5.3 seconds. If it were less of a torquer motor it wouldn't fall off like that at high rpms. My fourth is the same as your fifth and 50-70 comes up in 7.5 seconds. At least you can use these timings as baselines to see if you're in the ballpark. BTW, am I the only one besides Mark Shaw that does interval timings like this? I guess the conclusion is that the only way you'll get MUCH improved high end torque figures is if you get the head ported and polished w/matched manifolds. Just my $0.02 worth. Peter Tong '82 2.0 8V Cabby From bbs.ug.eds.com!news.cerf.net!mvb.saic.com!news.alpha.net!pacifier!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!gumby!calvin!calvin!not-for-mail Fri Apr 21 18:02:06 PDT 1995 Article: 4879 of rec.autos.vw Relay-Version: ANU News - V6.1B9 05/16/94 VAX/VMS V1.5; site bbs.ug.eds.com Path: bbs.ug.eds.com!news.cerf.net!mvb.saic.com!news.alpha.net!pacifier!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-feed-1.peachnet.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!news.sprintlink.net!uunet!gumby!calvin!calvin!not-for-mail Newsgroups: rec.autos.vw Subject: Re: WANTED: A1 1.8 140 HP recipe Message-ID: <3mn4it$58h@ursa.calvin.edu> From: rvborgh@news.calvin.edu (Raymond Vander Borgh) Date: 14 Apr 1995 20:38:53 -0400 References: Organization: Calvin College NNTP-Posting-Host: ursa.calvin.edu Lines: 58 In article bh321@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (John V. Cianci) writes: >I have a 85 Scirocco with a 1.8L 10:1, and It only has a header, via >resonator, and a Super sonic turbo muffler. I have Embarrassed a 2.0L 8V, >that's in a Rabbit, and prior to that he had just installed a Schrick Cam. >I have also pulled away from a Golf GTi 2.0L 16V. hmmm.... this is the first time that I have heard this - perhaps you have a particularly strong 1.8 sample, or its well tuned - or the opposite is true for the 2.0 8v/16v drivers. >1.8L 10:1,and 2.0L 8V/16V There is NO difference in straight line >acceleration. You will notice the torque increase. Although I couldn't >keep up with my friend on the turns, were the 2.0L 8V is FAR superior than >1.8L. This is plainly not true number wise, but perhaps true perception wise. If anything the 2.0 in my Cabby feels less strained when accelerating than the 1.8 did in my GTI. The torque curve feels quite a bit flatter, and less peaky such that for the same accelerative forces the drama quotient is lower. However, it IS moving the same amount of distance faster. The 1.8 also revs differently and a bit more freely, especially at the top end, when compared with long stroke 2.0. Why don't you find a consistent stretch of flat road, an accurate stopwatch, then do timed 50-70 runs in 5th. I suggest that gear because that is the only gear our cars have in common (I'm assuming your Scirocco has the close ratio 2h box - my .91 fourth is equivalent to your .91 fifth in that case). If you have the wider ratio box then do 40-60 , 50-70 intervals in 3rd and 4th. I usually do them both directions and average. Call me a fanatic, but I figure that after I've made a change it can't hurt to put a number on the gain (or loss) afterwards. One thing I did realize (since you are running the stock hydraulic cam) was that driveability wise the stock hydro cam was very nice for the two weeks I had it on my cabby. It didn't seem as mild as that on the older cars such as that on my 1.7. It seemed only a hair milder than the G-grind on my Rabbit in the way the power band felt (however the hydro cam was helped some by a mildly ported head). BTW, I'm having my 2.0 taken apart and everything balanced in the interest of smoothness/reliability. Has anyone done out there done this to an older style 2.0 and how much smoother can I expect it to be? This motor has never been silky smooth, my Saab's 2.0 is much smoother, and I guess it didn't help that I was running a Hor 270. > >There is also no top speed difference. Not true, as proven by my Cabby doing 115 even with the top down... (yes its an aerodynamic brick....) >Save money...buy a 1.8L 10:1 -- >John V. Cianci >Funkengruven=1991 Jetta GTX 2.0L 16V >"Don't wear a hat...you'll go bald" Peter Tong '82 2.0 8v Cabby '84 Saab 900S From corrado-l-owner@teleport.com Wed Jan 10 22:30 PST 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA24721; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:30:04 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from desiree.teleport.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01HZV0SW7A5C001XKT@UG.EDS.COM>; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:27:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA17319 for corrado-l-outgoing; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:02:15 -0800 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com (emout06.mail.aol.com [198.81.10.43]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA17300 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 1996 22:02:11 -0800 Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA26367 for corrado-l@teleport.com; Thu, 11 Jan 1996 01:01:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 01:01:40 -0500 From: EIPTUNING@aol.com Subject: let it Snow, let it Snow Sender: owner-corrado-l@teleport.com To: corrado-l@teleport.com Reply-To: corrado-l@teleport.com Message-Id: <960111005008_87716041@emout06.mail.aol.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: bulk Status: RO Just wanted to drop a note about the glorious weather we are having here in central Maryland. Saturday night, a few inches of snow started falling. I decided to put a Turbo motor in my A-1 Scirocco (1980) so I would have a decent winter "rallye" car to blast thru the snow in. I started around 8pm (dark outside), at around 10am, when I finished assembling and installing the motor, (I hadn't noticed the time that had passed and it was still kind of dark outside) I pushed the button to open one of the shop doors. Geeeez!! There was over 20" of snow on the ground and still falling steadily! With a new set of Pirelli Winter 190P's on the Scirocco, I had the perfect conditions to test my winter toy (provided I could even get out of the shop). Man what fun! The car ran flawlessly and made good power. Mostly I was truely amazed at ability of the Pirelli's to pull me thru everything. The car has a very low suspension (not good for this stuff) but even with the front spoiler constantly plowing the snow the car pulled right along. In fact I took several backroads with alot of untouched accumulation, and no other vehicles around, just to see what this puppy could do. Never got stuck (knocking on wood) and I was the only fool driving a car, all other vehicles were 4x4's. I am told that the Blizzak's are even a little better than the Pirelli's in the snow (not as good dry). I just can't imagine considering how amazing these Pirelli's are. By the time I was done playing around there was over 2 feet of snow on the ground. Everything, and I mean Everything was closed Sunday & Monday! Not even McDonald's or 7-11 were open (& I was hungry). It had been a long night. Fortunately a couple employees were able to come in yesterday (Tuesday) and a few today. There are drifts over four feet high in front of our showroom! Just got UPS today for the first time this week. THE GOOD NEWS is we are expecting another snow storm producing a minimum of 12" with possibly more than 20"starting Thursday evening! We haven't even dug out all of the shop doors from Sundays snow! At least I'll be out having fun if we can't get to the front door of the shop come Friday morning. I'll bet all you warm weather west coasters are so jealous! After writing this I realize that it sort of has nothing to do with "the list" but thought some of you may be interested in the haps since you have no doubt heard about our weather. Like the song says: Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow... ------------> RICH !! <------------ From gcollinson@naccess.com Tue Jan 30 21:26 PST 1996 Received: from mailer by fshpp1 with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18695; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:26:38 -0800 Return-Path: Received: from dilbert.naccess.com by UG.EDS.COM (PMDF V4.3-10 #4) id <01I0MWG8CUM8005NY8@UG.EDS.COM>; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:24:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from net access.naccess.com ([206.47.79.24]) by dilbert.naccess.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA02619 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:23:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:23:00 -0500 From: "Geri M. Collinson" Subject: responding to Jans e-mail from Fri, 26 jan 10:32 pst.(2.0L 16V/8V into carb rabbit.) X-Sender: gcollinson@naccess.com (Unverified) To: jan@UG.EDS.COM Message-Id: <199601310523.AAA02619@dilbert.naccess.com> X-Envelope-To: JAN@FSHPP1 Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Dear Jan , Thanks for yor fast reply, I totally agree with your opinion about buying a newer VW instead of doing these 2.0L swaps. The reason why I was considering an engine swap or basically updating the car was because I bought the car for about $100.00 US and all it needed was brakes! Another major reason is because the car happens to be from Oaklahoma and is pretty much rust free which very rare considering our Canadian winters! Since I've got a good shell for cheap bucks I thought that it would make a great project car. I've been researching these swaps for about 6 months, picking up various zines etc. and I just got net access a couple of months ago. The major stumbling block about these conversions is the electronics/wiring (I'm useless when it comes to this hence the carbs.) --- 2.0 L 16V with carbs using full ECU--- I believe weber has a system using special carbs for full ECU called *weber alpha injection*. The kit comes with carb manifold and 2 special DCOE's. Each carb has a slot in which the injector goes in, therefore each individual port has its own injection and throtle body while still retaining full ECU. There is a simular system by R.S. Engineering (U.K.) called *Lumenition*. I still haven't fully looked into this option as this would be a wiring nightmare for me, thats why the braker-point distributer (same as early VW fuel injection) was suggested. I just thought that ditching the injection and ECU would be a simple way to go. Also I've got a couple of ideas to throw your way. - I hear that a scirocco 16V header (4-2-1) will work for an exhaust manifold on 2.0L 16V swap. - For drive train scirocco 16V trans and late model cab cv's, and drive shafts (thicker I think) As for the 2.0L 8V bubble block this would be my choice of swap, it seems that it would be cheaper and easier in the long run. I still have to do some research on the electronic end of things since I do't have a fuel injection origin to start with and still plan to use the webers. So any other ideas/answers you got please feel free to throw them my way. Thanks for your time, I'll try and keep you updated on the project.( If I actually go through with it.) P.S. - Have you heard any good/bad things about Eurospec? I think that they sell a 2.0L version of the bubble block along with 16V's and new castings of 8V heads.